#067 How to Express Your Gifted Self with Digital Music & Art w/ Johannes Dreyer

[00:03:04] You can still register at The G Word and last year, everything. Like stayed online afterwards and you can actually even tap into. Last year’s GTN awareness week. Uh, content at The G Word. So it’s not too late. You can still tune in. There’s lots of great stuff going on and you can register

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[00:04:42] And there are links in the show notes.

[00:04:46] And today instead of playing our usual intro. Let’s get everyone to thrive, jingle that we play. I’m actually going to ease you into this podcast with a little tune that one of my children created with Johanns shared with permission by the artist. In this podcast. And enjoy stay quirky and I will see you again tomorrow.

[00:06:12] The theme for this year’s Gifted, Talented and Neurodiversity Awareness Week is gifted joy, which is a super exciting excuse to talk about the things that we love doing.

[00:06:23] And our Gifted Kids podcast, we thought we would focus on play as a part of our joy. So this week we’re exploring those things that bring us joy through. How delightful . Sometimes as a parent of a gifted kid, it can be hard to navigate what supporting our kids look like and navigating those kind of treacherous waters of pushing our kids into things they don’t really wanna do.

[00:06:48] So in our family, whenever we’re considering a new kind of, Adventure or extracurricular activity, we always have a very conscious conversation about why are we doing it? Because with like three kids, two parents and a dog in the household, you know, if everyone does one thing, that’s a very busy week already.

[00:07:09] So we’re always trying to be very conscious of what we are doing and the things that we do are very deliberate and, and a big question for us is, Are we doing it for us as the parent, Or actually, does our child really wanna do this? Will it bring them joy? Uh, and are they motivated? And I have to be conscious about that as much as anyone because I have always been a very creative person, all sorts of things.

[00:07:42] and I feel like it’s super important for my kids to have some kind of creative outlet just because, you know, whether it’s traversing those teenage years and some very heartfelt poetry or thrash metal, you know, whatever it is, we need to lean on that creativity at some point in our lives to process big emotions.

[00:08:07] And so I want my children to have a toolbox of things that they can lean into, but I have to be very wary that I’m not wanting to put things in the toolbox for my own sake, and they get to choose what goes in the toolbox, if that makes sense. So like, I would love my kids to play an instrument, but at this point in time that motivation isn’t entirely there.

[00:08:35] So, I was delighted nonetheless, or one of my kids discovered an interest in digital music and another in digital art, and today I’m incredibly excited to talk about why music and art are so awesome with Johan Dryer from Beat Frequency Mentoring. Welcome, Johan. I’m absolutely desired to have you here for this conversation.

[00:08:59] Thanks

[00:08:59] Johannes Dreyer: so much, Sophia. I’m really happy to be here

[00:09:03] Sophia Elliott: Now, full disclosure, Johan. Is someone that we found to meet this need for our children, . And I was actually thinking today that on this podcast, I have the great privilege of talking to people all over the world and in my backyard, and often people who are a part of our lives as well.

[00:09:25] And so, Johan’s, totally seen our messy house and our busy family, and has been a part of that picture and brought great joy. To our children with digital music and digital art. So I’m very excited to to have you here and share you with the world. .

[00:09:45] Johannes Dreyer: Thank you so much. It’s a very big privilege for me to be able to come into your house and share that experience with your kids and the family.

[00:09:54] I’m super lucky to be doing what I’m doing. It

[00:09:58] Sophia Elliott: is, it’s a really fabulous thing and I, you know, I often like will cook dinner or something while you guys are there and I just. I love the joy to know that it obviously brings the kids and. It’s just really beautiful. So first of all, tell us a little bit about yourself and how you ended up doing beat Frequency mentoring.

[00:10:17] I feel like there’s a story behind this.

[00:10:19] Johannes Dreyer: Oh, there’s a very long story and I probably won’t bore you all with the, the whole story. Funny enough, a friend of mine did a podcast about creativity and what the messy process is and I was on his podcast talking about my life journey. So I might share the link.

[00:10:34] Yes, please do. Yes, . Cause it is actually quite a funny story. But I’m gonna kind of skip through a bit of that. So I guess, you know, growing up in South Africa I was very lucky to be exposed to a lot of really cool music. My dad was into some really heavy metal stuff, so listening to Black Sabbath and, you know, Uriah Heap and Jethro Toll and all sorts of stuff like that.

[00:10:57] And they were very open to sharing music. So from a very young age, I was already making mix tapes back in the day when we were making, you know, tape mix tapes and recording off the radio. So I’ve always had a love for music. In that way. Then, oh yeah, I went through high school, studied marketing, did some retail stuff that wasn’t really very fulfilling and first forward, we’ll skip to 2008 when I came to Australia to formally study music production and audio engineering.

[00:11:26] So I knew I needed this to be a part of my life. I did my bachelor’s degree in Byron Bay as you do.

[00:11:34] Sophia Elliott: And you do that sounds like a great place to do a batch, learn anything.

[00:11:37] Johannes Dreyer: Exactly. So ended up, started to work at this private uni ended up teaching and interesting enough as when I was teaching, I got approached by a mom who had a young son who had cerebral palsy and I had just received some funding for him to.

[00:11:59] To learn to dj and I jumped at the opportunity. I was like, I wanna hang out and I wanna do this with this young man. This sounds amazing. So it was really cool. We had funding for, I think it was about 12 weeks of catch ups every week. And then we were, had some money to put on a little event at the end so he can actually showcase his skills.

[00:12:21] And I guess that was kind of the start of beach frequency. It didn’t, wasn’t quite branded quite yet. But then from that moment on, I just kept on meeting people. It was just like people found me. Then in 2016 I moved to Adelaide. And because I was working for this uni, you know, you’d often have people come through the door who were really excited about music.

[00:12:48] They wanna partake, they wanna get involved, but the formal education, System doesn’t necessarily allow for neuro diverse or people with living with some sort of a disability and me being me, that that doesn’t fly. So , I ended up like collecting about, I think three or four clients that I would stay late at night after I finished the day of work would bring them into the studios and we’d start, you know, I’d kind of just do mentoring or teaching them, tutoring them and doing all sorts of stuff.

[00:13:23] And then I just realized that this is really a big passion of mine and I wanted to kind of get to know how it all works and really get my head around, especially working with Neurodiverse people. Because I found my personal lived experiences. I’ve got a daughter who’s a stepdaughter, who’s on the spectrum.

[00:13:44] And so that fascinated me. So for my masters, I did a masters of creative industry. I wanted to create a online musical making tool to help kids with emotional regulation. Because I found her every morning kind of just, you know, struggling with the, the sound of the blender or, you know, kind of loud noises and stuff like that.

[00:14:06] So I was really fascinated about sound and how it affected people living with autism specifically. So I ended up making this, this music making tool, and then I spoke to someone who was like, You need to get into counseling and kind of formalize that, that framework that you’re working with. And by that stage I had collected enough clients to really quit my full-time job and, you know, start giving two days a week to, to beat frequency and, and yeah, it’s just grown from there to where we are now And yes,

[00:14:44] Sophia Elliott: how beautiful and what, how beautiful, what a lovely thing to do, like you said.

[00:14:51] It’s great to feel very lucky. You know, getting up each day and doing the things that you do. So what does the mentoring look like? What are some of the creative tools that you

[00:15:01] Johannes Dreyer: use? So, yeah, like you mentioned before, I kind of focus on music production and digital art. So those are kind of my, my passion.

[00:15:10] So I. Luckily the way that the music industry has evolved, digital music making is very accessible at the moment. So I use some of the industry standard software and kind of mid controllers so the, you know, little midy pianos and launch pads and things that people might be familiar with cuz their kids are watching people on YouTube playing with them.

[00:15:34] So I use Ableton and I use an Ableton push to do the music product. And then in terms of digital art, I’ve got a iPad Pro and I use a program called procreate. Yeah. And so that’s kind of the, the main tools that I use at the moment

[00:15:51] Sophia Elliott: when, you know, certainly of my generation, growing up, you know, we didn’t even have the internet.

[00:15:58] I often tell my kids, you know, when I was a kid we only had two TV channels. . Yes. But so, and I just kind of say that, Some parents listening might, it might feel very inaccessible, but the reality is these days it’s so incredibly accessible to do digital art or digital music. There’s so many different resources and it really is, you know, just completely different to what was available for our generation.

[00:16:34] So it doesn’t need to be this a big, expensive thing either, does it?

[00:16:38] Johannes Dreyer: No, no, Definitely not. And that, yeah, that’s the thing. So you know, the software can range from Yeah. Being free software that you get, like garage band Yeah, there’s a couple of others, but up to, you know, the professional. Software that then does cost a bit of money.

[00:16:54] And then the controllers, again, like the, the gear that I use is pretty expensive because it’s a very professional piece of gear. It’s made to be taken on the road to go perform, live with and so on. But for $120 you can get a controller that the kids can, can kind of play with. And I guess this is one of my approaches is that creative expression.

[00:17:14] So the software is really cool in the way. We don’t have to think about music theory straight away. Yeah. We don’t necessarily have to play, you know, in time as much as this is definitely one of the skills we wanna develop first off. But kids and adults, I work with some adults as well. We just get the opportunity to.

[00:17:34] To literally just express ourselves and just smash some buttons. And then from there we kind of start the process of going, Okay, how do we start fleshing this out? How do we start focusing on rhythm? Because, you know, even just drumming or kind of ticking along, it’s already a way to kind of regulate our ourselves.

[00:17:53] Mm-hmm. , you know, we start feeling like we kind of I’m gonna use the word vibing cuz you’re vibing. You know? And like, I think that’s a lot of what this kind of interactive music stuff does. It’s about connection, you know? So yes, I have all these other kind of formal frameworks lying underneath that we wanna look at.

[00:18:11] But ultimately what I’ve noticed, the most important thing is just that connection. Just someone who’s, you know, willing to sit down. A person and go, Hey, let’s do something creative. Let’s make some music. And because this software is so like the formal music teachers almost get really upset because it’s almost like cheating.

[00:18:34] You know? Like we could literally, I’ve built a full song in a two hour session, like literally ready to release onto Spotify. And so, and that’s what I like about it. I like the fact that we can, we can get results straight away. So we start building that momentum. We’re not sitting there getting frustrated, trying to learn music theory, not understanding, why do I need to know music theory?

[00:18:57] So we’re kind of doing this like pool strategy where we get to make music first, and then when kids start getting bored with what they’re making or they hear other stuff and they’re like, Oh, why doesn’t mine sound. X, Y, Z, we can go, ah, that’s because they are using, you know, augmented scales. They’re using not just C Major the whole time.

[00:19:18] We can go into diminished things, we can do this, we can do that. And so then there’s an interest and then we can go. And I think this is where the gifted kids particularly kind of excel at because they get to that point a lot quicker. And because there’s so many different ways we can go with music, you know, and then, You can do challenges where you just walk in, they might like lesser house music, and then one day you walk in, you go, Alright.

[00:19:43] Today we’re doing drum and bass. And then it’s like, oh, okay, you know, we’ve got a challenge now using reference tracks and you just go, Okay, this is the sound we are going for today. Yeah, you might give them a couple of tools. So there’s a lot of ways to engage a very active and, you know, kind of extraordinary mind as well as at the same time people who are, you know, on the other side of the spectrum, we’re struggling to understand basic concepts.

[00:20:08] We can have them also interact and have.

[00:20:12] Sophia Elliott: I think it’s that lovely, uh, instant gratification within that creative process, you know, which I think has really been lovely and, and what I’ve seen as you’ve been there with my kids in particular, it’s like at the end of every session there is something, you know, that has been created or whether it’s music or art, and it’s really beautiful and I think.

[00:20:38] Being, you know, a creative person and experiencing that kind of journey where one thing leaps to another, to another. Uh, I think I just, I think I want to say to parents listening as well to never underrate or undervalue the starting point. And I think especially with gifted kids, We talk a lot about that kind of vertical acceleration, but also that kind of horizontal kind of expanding them horizontally.

[00:21:15] And so for an example of that would be, uh, you know, with my children, for example, for us, we started off with a very big focus of science, very factual science. And then, Kind of went horizontally to particular video games where you could build rockets, but very hardcore detailed, like grown up type. I say game, but it’s like pretty full on, which then kind of opened doors into, uh, creativity like Dungeons and Dragons with that multidisciplinary approach.

[00:21:56] But then that kind of led to. Digital music, do you know? It’s just kind of that very abstract. One thing leading to another thing, leading to another thing. And it kind of doesn’t matter where your child starts in terms of that creative process. The the juice is in the journey, isn’t it? You know, it’s kinda like value wherever the starting point is, because you never know what it’s going to lead to.

[00:22:22] Yeah. And yeah, and it, and what I see and what I just. Love about the digital music and art is what a beautiful sort of leap it is for kids who are into, I mean, every kid’s into screens, you know, every parent’s got a phone and we’re all doing it. We’re all doing it. You know, like Exactly. But it’s that beautiful leap from the screen to this creative outlet, which I think is really nice and.

[00:22:56] Yeah, and I just sort of, I think sometimes parents can be a bit shy of the fact that it’s digital. It’s not like a real instrument or a real painting. But actually it really is, isn’t it? Like

[00:23:07] Johannes Dreyer: it totally is, and that’s exactly how we should look at it. Like you just said, it’s the starting point. We kind of, you know, feeling it out going, how interested are they in this?

[00:23:17] How you know, do they really love it? And then from there you kind of build on that. So for example, with some of my kids that I work with who are really good at art, I’ll actually, after a couple of sessions, we’ll put the digital stuff away and we’ll actually get pen and paper out and go, All right, cool.

[00:23:33] Now we’re gonna do still life drawing because we really need to, If you really good and you wanna get better at art, we have to get really good at that. And that’s interesting that you say like this kind of horizontal expansion, one of my clients, it’s been the most classic case. When I started working with him, it was to do music.

[00:23:53] Because he, he wanted, he was starting to play piano from memory, and then he, he kind of, I got involved and he was like, Oh, I wanna make beats. Then we started doing stock motion. And we ended up doing stop motion videos for about six months, and then we kind of got back into drawing and now we’ve kind of come back to music and, and the beautiful thing is that yes, we can tie all those things together.

[00:24:18] So again, the software, it makes it so accessible and easy, so appropriate. For example, we can actually draw animations. So we can animate anything that we want. Then at the same time, we can make music that we can put to our animations. We can obviously use our iPads to do stock motion again, do sound effects, you know, for that.

[00:24:38] So using a phone, we go out. So again, we don’t need expensive stuff. We’ve got all the stuff we need. We just going out and, and I think another important thing for me about that sometimes, especially when we’re working with Neurodiverse our kids in general, really is to be very adaptable on the day. Mm.

[00:24:57] Like I’ve caught myself so many times driving to a client thinking, Oh, what did we do last week? Oh, cool. We should probably work on that song again. Or, you know, I wanna show them some cool thing that I saw on the internet. And then I walk in there and they’re already on a mission. Yeah, but they’ve got something else that they wanna do.

[00:25:14] Yeah. And then I have to just kind of take, and it’s like, and that’s I guess my approach is that person-centered approach about Yeah, I let them lead. Exactly. So on a day they might not feeling be feeling great. And that’s okay. You know, and, and a lot of times I’ve had sessions where we haven’t done anything but just talk.

[00:25:32] So, Yeah. You know, sometimes people just need a bit of a, a chat and, and that’s great too. So.

[00:25:39] Sophia Elliott: Yeah, that’s really great. I mean, I remember being a kid, I was just always very creative and I just, I did a lot of craft as like a, you know, in those primary years. I remember being in a high school and I just, I, I saw this black and white picture of an eagle in a book, and I don’t know why I’m like, I could draw that.

[00:26:00] I picked up a pencil and I drew it, and then I was about 14, and then suddenly I became known. As an art person, and I went on, did a degree in visual arts. Yeah. But it was, and then ironically went into politics, . But it, but I always, you know, my success in politics came from my creativity very much so.

[00:26:26] And exactly. Because with creativity I always look at it as it’s a series of problem solving, you know, and going with the flow, isn’t it? That creative flow. And so it was always like going with the flow. And so, which ultimately led me to working with vulnerable teenagers in Scotland where we would use arts to build confidence and self-esteem.

[00:26:54] Get them outta bed because these were kids with generational dysfunction, you know, really tough lives. And we used to use, we would anything, music, fashion, any kind of art because it’s such a beautiful, affirming, expressive. There is nothing wrong, you know, you can’t do anything wrong. Absolutely. Kind of medium and so, I just think it’s one of those things that has so much to give and, but don’t box it as a parent.

[00:27:32] Don’t kind of go, Well, it has to look like this or it has to look like that. Yeah. And I think that’s what you do really beautifully with the kids as well. And I love those particular days when you’re very gracious and the kids are like, pressing buttons and like, No, try it this way. And, uh, you know, and I don’t know, one day they were there and they managed to get.

[00:27:56] Two screens linked or something. .

[00:27:59] Johannes Dreyer: Yes. That was fantastic. They got, yeah, they got my iPad. They got the mouse from the computer to go into the iPad, which is something I had managed to do myself. But .

[00:28:13] Sophia Elliott: So I guess in your experience of that creative process and the mentoring, and if we’re talking about gifted joy or just joy, You know, and, and what it brings to our lives.

[00:28:26] Uh, any kind of words of advice there for parents in. Mm.

[00:28:34] Johannes Dreyer: I think it’s exactly like you said,

[00:28:35] Let’s not box it.

[00:28:36] You know,

[00:28:37] creativity isn’t necessarily someone who can draw an absolutely fantastic still life, or someone who can paint beautiful abstract stuff. Creativity is so much more than that.

[00:28:49] It is that,

[00:28:49] it’s that process of self-reflecting and

[00:28:52] kind of

[00:28:53] building confidence and then

[00:28:54] kind of

[00:28:54] problem solving as you do all of that.

[00:28:57] So yeah, I think that’s the first thing. It’s just, except that that’s, that’s part of our lives. We are, we’re all creative in some way,

[00:29:05] you know, even business people who are always like, Oh, I’m not, I don’t have a creative bone in my body, but they can negotiate big deals, which is creative. So, Yeah. I guess in terms of other, Things like parents shouldn’t be scared to kind of get down on their, you know, knees next to the kids.

[00:29:25] And I found something like particularly coloring. Is a really, especially with younger kids, although I do it with a lot of older people as well, for like more mindfulness stuff, but, And kind of like using gel pens and stuff like that. Yeah. But get involved to kind of lead by example. Kids love that interaction.

[00:29:44] And you’ll be surprised actually at how relaxing it is and how, and then that’s when that process starts. It’s as simple as coloring in a mandala. Yeah. Then you go, Oh wow, you know, that’s, You feel great. Especially when you can kind of detach from that, Oh, it has to look perfect, or it has to look like something.

[00:30:03] I always joke about this the way of the budha. There’s this detachment, like you just, you’re doing it for that time, that moment. You enjoy that process, and then you don’t worry about. Like, you don’t, you don’t worry about putting it out on the internet. Which is funny cuz that was one of my big issues when I was kind of really in the music industry because I didn’t have that drive to always wanna have my stuff out there.

[00:30:28] I’d just be like, Oh no, I’m, I’m happy to just have a, a folder with 6,000 songs. That’s okay. , you know, as, as you do. But yeah, so kind of just, just give it a go, you know, get involved. Have a play. I know, especially with a lot of parents around devices and apps and stuff, they wanna have a go themselves first.

[00:30:50] Yeah. So yeah. You know, just have a play. You, you might be surprised at how, how much fun you can have because it is so accessible. It really is, you know, easy and then researching, you know, if you dunno how to do something, get onto YouTube. So then again, we’re building life skills with the kids. Mm-hmm.

[00:31:07] like how do we actually research.

[00:31:09] Sophia Elliott: So, and as much as YouTube is the bane of my existence with my kids, it is a just a wonderful resource in terms of how do I do this? How do I do that? Like, it’s the best thing ever. Yeah. Absolutely. And I think you hear the nail on the head there when you mention perfectionism, especially with this audience,

[00:31:27] Yes. And, and that creative process is a great cure for perfectionism because it’s, you know, it’s, you have to kind of. Be a bit messy in the creative process. I think

[00:31:41] Johannes Dreyer: it is. It’s absolutely messy. And I think, and I always preach this when it comes to the music, like especially the, the music production and the electronic type music, the radio stations, and I’m not gonna name and shame them on here, , but you know, they always have this This vision of, or this thing that they portray of the people, you know, Oh, Susie has just picked up a piano and she was just like smashing some buttons and all of a sudden she’s got this hip song.

[00:32:06] But no, actually she’s been playing piano since she was three. She’s got like great whatever in, you know, classical piano, but that’s not. You know, Pardon, sexy. You know, it’s, it’s this thing of like, Oh, this person’s just burst out of the, you know, wherever and here they are. Oh no, they’ve actually been making music for a very long time and it’s as soon as we can change that thing.

[00:32:27] Cuz that’s exactly where this, so young people are seeing this, they’re getting those messages going, Oh wow. These people that I look up to manage to do it. You know, This is the second song they’ve ever written. No, it’s not. It’s really not. And that’s the, that way of just making stuff. The more you make, the better you’re going to get.

[00:32:48] And then yeah, just kind of, you know, really having, having fun with the process I think is very

[00:32:54] Sophia Elliott: important. Yeah, yeah. Definitely. Going with the process, that lovely creative process of, I, uh, always remember a, a weekend painting thing I did, and I was probably about 20. And the artist there who was, who’s taking us would say, Throw away your darlings.

[00:33:12] You know, in reference to those bits of the painting, whatever it is, the painting, the music, whatever, that you kind of love, but you’re afraid to touch because you’re like, I might mess it up. And it was kinda like, we’ll mess it up. You know, Don’t be afraid of making that mess and seeing where else it can go.

[00:33:31] And I always sort of, that always stuck in my head, just like, Mess it up. It’s okay. We’ll see where this goes. Yeah, which is my entire philosophy of this podcast, I have to

[00:33:41] Johannes Dreyer: say, . That’s perfect. It’s absolutely perfect.

[00:33:46] Sophia Elliott: Well, Johan, thank you so much for joining us for Gifted, Talented and Neurodiversity Awareness Week and talking about Gifted Joy.

[00:33:56] It brings me great joy to see my kids, uh, you know, creating that digital music and digital art with you. I might ask them if they’re happy to lend a little tune that we can put in this podcast as a bit of a segue here and there, which would be really lovely. But before we go, how can people find you?

[00:34:21] Who do you is. You’re here in Adelaide?

[00:34:25] Johannes Dreyer: I am in Adelaide, yes. So most of my clients I see face to face. I do have a couple that I see over Zoom and stuff, but yeah, I guess beat frequency.com au. It’s my website so you can reach me on there or my email is johan beat frequency.com au. If you wanna reach out, even if you have questions about software and gear to buy, I’m always happy to help people there.

[00:34:52] Yeah, it’s probably the best way to reach me. Awesome.

[00:34:56] Sophia Elliott: I’ll put all those links in the show notes. Everyone can find you. And just thank you once again for joining us today. It’s been a real pleasure.

[00:35:03] Johannes Dreyer: Thank you so much for having me. It’s been awesome. .