#037 How to Motivate & Support Gifted Kids with Dr Joanne Foster

[00:04:36] Dr. Joanne Foster: I’ll give you two tips to start with. The first is value attribution. If somebody feels that a particular task or activity is authentically relevant, that it matters, it has a value to it, then they’re more likely to be motivated by it.

[00:04:54] And the second has to do with having an optimal match, making sure that the learning and the learner are well-matched in terms of what the child can do. And what’s being asked of them. So the expectations the actual preparation, the step-by-step that’s required over the long haul. These need to be appropriately matched so that the child feels comfortable around what it is they’re expected to do.

[00:05:21] I’m going to tell you a little story. Okay. Because it may be a little bit straight this a little bit. And I write about this in one of my books and not now, maybe later and briefly, it’s a story about a little girl named Paul. And she’s in this class. And the teacher has been working on descriptive vocabulary and the assignment that she gives to the class is that you have to describe a day in the life of something, a beach, a rock, an icy pond, a farmer’s field, whatever, and it can either be real or imagined.

[00:05:52] You pick your locale and and you have to write two pages. Description. So Pauline goes home and she thinks about it. And she says to herself again, like, is it boring? Like what, what, what goes on on a rock? What goes on in a field? Like this is stupid. I don’t want to do this. I’m not motivated by it.

[00:06:07] Forget it. I can do more interesting things in that. And a couple of days later, the teacher’s going around the room and she’s asking everybody. Have you picked your spot and everybody’s saying yes, and someone’s saying, oh, I’m going to do a pigs die. And somebody else says, oh, I’m going to do the moon. And someone else says, I’m going to do a golf course.

[00:06:23] And everybody’s all excited. And the teacher gets to Pauline and says, well, what are you going to do? And Pauline of course has just written the whole thing off, not interested, it’s being stupid. And so she quickly comes up with the idea. I’ll, I’ll do the playground across the road from my house. And the teacher says, okay, that’s a great idea.

[00:06:39] Pauline goes home. She talked to her mom and she says, I’m stuck. I have to do this stupid playground. I have to describe it. And, and, and I don’t want to do this. I don’t want to put forth the effort. I’m just not motivated. Right. So in this instance, it was just not aligned with what Pauline was, was wanting to do, but she was stuck.

[00:06:58] She had to come up with something. So she looked outside her window and she hadn’t been in this park for ages and she thought about it and she saw the swing sets and she said, Kids playing and she thought, Hmm, I wonder what goes on there. Look, there’s flowers. And the trees look pretty interesting.

[00:07:12] They’ve grown over the years. Maybe this won’t be so bad after all. And then she decides, well, I’m going to go across the road and actually have a look. And she starts talking to the kids and she sees the gold plaques and she sees what fun they’re happening having. And she talks to the caregivers and the moms and she, she, she looks at what’s happening there.

[00:07:32] And all of a sudden she becomes more interested. And then she starts thinking, listen, there’s birds and there’s dogs and her senses kick in. And she wonders what happens here at night to the flowers, close up. Are there lights, like what goes on here? And she decides I’m going to get her a tape recorder and I’m going to go in and I’m going to actually take what goes on here.

[00:07:54] As she became more invested in the activity, she became more motivated and ultimately she did an amazing project. She did a cover page. She did a video, she did a soundtrack. She was excited because she had found a way to make it her own. And I think. The lesson here is that if you can help children find something that makes it their own, that they can take responsibility for and, and, and feel independent about and connect with other people with it as well.

[00:08:22] Cause she, she spoke to people that the car, then that makes a huge difference. If, if someone really feels that the activity or the task is meaningful and that it suits their ability level and they can make it more interesting for themselves, that will be motivated. Long answer to a short question,

[00:08:39] Sophia Elliott: but yeah, no, and a brilliant answer.

[00:08:41] It really comes to the heart of, I gifted kids sense of, uh, I guess it’s almost like. You know, there’s that inherent sense of justice, which I think links itself to that sense of it’s got to be, have meaning for me. Yeah. You know, I’ve got to be able to relate that back to something I feel is important.

[00:09:04] Which, we talk a lot about in terms of, that strength based approach. So that leads me on to a few other questions. As a parent of gifted kids, especially in those early days of coming to terms with, oh my goodness, my child is gifted. What does that mean? That, potential gets talked about a lot.

[00:09:29] Should we be pushing our gifted kids harder and further?

[00:09:33] Dr. Joanne Foster: Okay. So, so first of all, the word potential is really tough. Nope. Nobody knows anybody. Else’s potential really. I mean, we don’t have tea leaves. We don’t have crystal balls. We, we, we have to we, we have to move forward without. Trying to put anybody into a box around what their potential may or may not be because it develops over time with the right opportunities to learn and with the kinds of encouragement and support that, uh, that kids need in order to thrive.

[00:10:02] And, and in terms of pushing kids, I, I think that we really need to be careful around that because what we really want to do is support them. We want to support their efforts. Their journeys and, uh, and celebrate the small steps as well as, as well as the big ones. Success is really a matter of small.

[00:10:20] Increments at a time, small bursts of effort. And sometimes there’s bigger bursts too, but not always. So when we push kids, we, we really have to be patient and we have to enable them to find that value in. They’re doing to ask the questions they need to ask to have the choices that they need to have to have the time, the extra time sometimes in order to be able to consolidate the learning that they want to do.

[00:10:46] So supporting it’s opposed to, to pushing I think is important and to show faith in their abilities to have competence in them, because that will translate into them having confidence in themselves. I think. One of the things that that’s, that’s really important. And this is a word that’s probably not on the tip of your tongue, but it’s on the tip of mine today because I just posted an article that the creativity post and the title of the article has tenacity.

[00:11:12] And, you know, it’s just an eight letter word and it’s a real. Easy little word, but it’s such an important word. I, and I encourage people just to go to creativity, post.com and take a look on the feature. It was just posted this afternoon and I talk about how we have to encourage children to.

[00:11:33] Push themselves instead of us as parents. And I’m a parent too, and a grandparent, instead of pushing them, encourage them to find ways to make the learning meaningful for themselves to, to have resilience to Allow themselves to have creative expression, to, to make mistakes by taking sensible risks and know that it’s okay.

[00:11:54] They can get help along the way if they need it. Anyway, I think tenacity is, is a big helper. It’s a helper for parents in terms of supporting their kids, helping them find new ways of, of, of being a Maverick of. Taking the reins and also helping children find how they themselves can be tenacious and work forwards.

[00:12:16] Sophia Elliott: Absolutely. It’s uh, I like that tenacity tenacity is a great word, like you say. And I think it’s sort of, because I think it sort of pulls out that idea of determination and grit. Uh, and something that gifted kids, perhaps skills that they do need to learn because things often come so easily to them. And, and you can overlay that with, the sometimes.

[00:12:46] The stress or a high expectation of this idea of potential, which gets talked about a lot with giftedness. And I completely agree with you in terms of, I don’t like the word potential. And I know sometimes, and I know in the UK that they kind of don’t use gifted. They say high learning potential. And while I don’t like the label gifted either what I worry about the term potential is that sense of.

[00:13:14] And expectation I have to live up to that is imagined. And if I don’t live up to that, therefore I’m failing and I’m, you know, I’m not successful. And I just think that is a disaster waiting to happen. Like you say, we can not, we can not look into tealeaves and see what is that potential? What is this mysterious, mythical thing that you’re supposed to live up to?

[00:13:37] So I think that’s a really. Crucial lesson for parents of gifted kids. So thank you for that. Let’s though. What advice do you have for parents? Like we’ve, we’ve talked about effort already and, uh, when things come so easily, it can be hard to actually build up that muscle of grit, uh, that you were sort of talking about.

[00:14:05] So. How do we, as parents help our gifted kids have that sort of intrinsic motivation to make that effort when things get hard. And I guess it comes back to the motivation that we were talking about

[00:14:20] Dr. Joanne Foster: earlier. Right. And it’s a very good question. I think first of all, parents have to make sure that the rules and the expectations are fitting and.

[00:14:30] And flexible. So those are three really important fitting. In other words, going back to that match between the learner and the learners capacities and the kinds of opportunities that are being offered in terms of their learning, um, fairness that the the timelines, the. Availability of materials and the availability of supports.

[00:14:51] Those are there for their child, if, and when they need them. And also being flexible, uh, having that opportunity to, to negotiate a little bit around timelines, or if there’s a lot of creativity that all of a sudden comes to the fore in the same way that Pauline and all of a sudden wanted to try different things at night with the recording and so on and taking maybe extra time to do that.

[00:15:13] So fit fairness and flexibility. Another thing is to pay very close attention to your child’s skill levels. They may not have the same skill level in all different subject areas. So, you know, be aware of that. You might have a child who has what we call asynchronous development, which means that, you know, they may be terrific in math, but maybe not so good in some other areas.

[00:15:32] So, so keeping an eye out in terms of the domain of learning and making sure that whatever is being asked of them, Well suited to their capacities in that level. Also interest whether or not the child is interested in, in what it is that that will, of course motivate them as well. And, and their emotional strengths what’s going on in their lives.

[00:15:53] So, you know, with COVID and with all the uncertainty and vulnerability. And so forth that’s happening right now that that’s right at the forefront of what’s going on in schools and families. And, and the kinds of coping mechanisms that children have are very relevant and how parents are modeling the kinds of coping mechanisms they themselves use and what’s happening within the family constellation that dynamically, th th the nucleus, the safe Haven of home and whether or not that’s being supportive of.

[00:16:24] So those are important factors.

[00:16:27] Sophia Elliott: Yeah, absolutely. And I was, you mentioned the creativity. What was it called? The, the creativity post

[00:16:35] Dr. Joanne Foster: I have over I’m over 70 articles in there. I write for them. I put it in. Call them in every month, I’ve written about praise and reassurance and creativity and gifted learners and like all kinds of things.

[00:16:48] So again, I encourage people to go there and all of this successful on my website, I have a resource page and and you can just sort of click on and, and get my articles from the creativity post from there.

[00:16:59] Sophia Elliott: Yeah, absolutely. And I’ll put the link to that, to those pages in the show notes. So everyone can have a look.

[00:17:06] I was actually having a look through the articles this morning and there are lots of amazing articles there. One caught my eye on lazy. Which I felt was topical because we were going to talk about effort and, and that’s a really great article, which I will, uh, put in the show notes too. And because it just kind of comes back to what you were saying about everyone’s current.

[00:17:32] Uh, you know, uh, our current sense of wellbeing given what a crazy year it’s been with. COVID a lot of people have been in lockdown homeschooling or in and out of lockdown, or just a general sense of uncertainty as we get to what is the end of the academic year? Here in Australia, although I know it’s slightly different in the, in the U S and in the Northern hemisphere like our kids are naked as our way.

[00:18:02] And so when it comes to our expectation and what we’re expecting, the effort for our kids to put into school at the moment, or even stuff at home, We have lowered that benchmark. It’s like as long as you’re getting through the day, as long as you’re getting to school, that is kind of, the benchmark is so low because they’re, you know, the resilience is really down.

[00:18:28] I was talking to one of the teachers only a couple of days ago and, and, and she was saying how one of my kids was struggled with something gets scone because you know that we’re doing this. Scavenger hunt and it wasn’t in numerical order. And that was enough to kind of doing that child.

[00:18:49] The fact of that is out of order. Like my resilience is so low, I’m just going to put my hoodie up and shut down for a bit. And thankfully the parents of this particular, the teachers at this particular school, understand the children very well and could see that, okay, resilience is low over there. We’ll let them just kind of do what they need to and, you know, and then they rejoined and had a great day, but it was just kind of acknowledging that even our kids, uh, you know, they need that rest and

[00:19:24] Dr. Joanne Foster: yes, it’s, you know, everybody’s frazzled and we do have to.

[00:19:29] Make sure that there’s time for life balance for rest and reading and play, which is hugely important. We have to keep in mind children’s past experiences. What sort of put them over the edge before what’s what, what are the strengths that they can call upon to make the day better? What, what kind of positive attitude can they bring forward and, and, and use as, as a way to propel them?

[00:19:51] What sort of work habits do they need additional help on? Are they disorganized these days? Do they need more help with time management you know, priorities, goal, setting those, those kinds of, you know, skill sets that, that, you know, may have somehow gotten sidelined or, or rocked in some way they may need help and really important.

[00:20:11] And we sometimes forget that it’s pleasing. You know, we’re so busy going about our business and doing, and expecting kids to do this, that, and the other that sometimes, but they just needed the time to pause step back, step aside and, and, and to say, you know, please, and thank you. And, and, you know, can we talk and chat about things really important?

[00:20:33] Sophia Elliott: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. We’re really feeling that at the moment. And I don’t know if this year’s. I don’t know, it feels like they’re more naked than usual. And I think the last couple of years are taking their toll on everyone. Generally speaking,

[00:20:50] Dr. Joanne Foster: what is knackered and how do you spell it? I want to use it in my writing.

[00:20:56] I love

[00:20:57] Sophia Elliott: it. I have to say it’s one of my favorite words. I probably use it a lot, so it’s K I never heard it. K N a C K E R E D naked. And I guess it just means. Uh, tired, but, but physically kind of exhausted as well as tired. So really really just you know, at the end of your rope yeah. So

[00:21:22] Dr. Joanne Foster: not being able to manage.

[00:21:24] Sophia Elliott: Yeah, that’s right. You just tired, physically anxiety. You can’t manage. It’s just like game over. Totally.

[00:21:36] Dr. Joanne Foster: When I, when I use it in my writing, I’m going to cite you. Is that okay? It’s

[00:21:41] Sophia Elliott: totally fine. I love that. I love that.

[00:21:44] Dr. Joanne Foster: That’s why I asked how to spell it. I don’t want to get it

[00:21:46] Sophia Elliott: wrong. I know. I know. That’s great.

[00:21:50] Dr. Joanne Foster: But sometimes too, when you’re feeling knackered, the best thing is to be creative. Yeah. Should figure out a new way to do something too.

[00:21:59] Yeah. Take a little bit of time just to let things percolate.

[00:22:03] Sophia Elliott: Definitely

[00:22:04] Dr. Joanne Foster: also busy rushing around and trying to accomplish things that, oh my goodness.

[00:22:11] Sophia Elliott: It’s only 24 hours in a day. It’s yeah, exactly. I think we, we do demand too much of ourselves and our kids sometimes. And it’s a, it’s a good opportunity to reevaluate, I think, as you get to the end of the year and sort of see what’s essential and, and how can we lower those expectations and, and yeah.

[00:22:30] Provide some space for a bit of creativity or rest I wanted to ask you today as well, in, in the book that you’ve recently republished it’s called being smart about gifted learning, empowering parents and kids through challenging change. You talked about something called the optimal match.

[00:22:47] So I, I wanted to take the opportunity to have a little conversation about that because I think that’s a really interesting Approach and for gifted kids. So tell us what, what is that.

[00:22:58] Dr. Joanne Foster: So it’s really about being flexibly, responsive to what children need and want to learn and finding opportunities to address those needs and wants, and basically providing a range of options for kids.

[00:23:12] So, I know it sounds like a lot of work because what do you mean a range of options? Let’s let me just give them one and they’ll be happy and it doesn’t work like that. But there were so many possibilities for learning and children can also help co-create their learning. But if you stop to think about the kinds of opportunities that are out there, especially with technology I mean, for example, that there’s a little girl I know who wanted to learn more about hieroglyphics and.

[00:23:38] Went online and contacted someone in Egypt who was a professor at a university who was kind enough to provide her with information on hieroglyphics. Another little girl wanted to learn about Russian literature teacher and her parents didn’t know anybody who knew anything about Russian literature, but they found somebody at another school who knew somebody who did so reaching out, finding mentors, finding cross grade resources independent studies, finding, finding things that need to be.

[00:24:07] Fixed volunteering in the community. Acceleration and enrichment in certain areas. If, if that’s a possibility entrepreneurial opportunities, leadership opportunities in, in, in being smart about gifted learning, Donna Matthews, and I spend two chapters on different kinds of learning opportunities that might be considered by parents, by teachers, by grandparents, by.

[00:24:31] By anybody who wants to help a child develop, and I’ll go back to the word potential. But again, that, that open-ended sense that you can do anything. You can be anything. And, and, and again, it’s interesting because going back to tenacity the example I gave in that particular article that was posted today was that I can take a picture of a sunset by stepping out.

[00:24:54] But I can also take a picture of a sunset by going someplace different and stretching my horizons. And maybe I can’t find a beach or a mountain or a desert to do it in. But what else can I do? What, what is it that I can do to push my own limits, to, to stretch my horizons and to be creative in new ways and to make a better match for me so that if somebody says, take a picture of a sunset, it’s not boring and frustrating for me, but it’s, it’s it’s an expression of my soul, my spirit, my mind, my desires, my aspirations.

[00:25:27] If, if, if I want to. Play a heart. If I want to learn to skateboard, if I want to take up a sport that I’ve never tried before, what do I have to do? What are my steps? What do I have to explore? And how can my parents help me sort of get there? So, so an optimal match is, is a matter of finding what it is that you really are keen to learn to do, and then finding ways to do it.

[00:25:54] Sophia Elliott: So have you got any advice then for parents on, different ways that they can help their child find those matches

[00:26:03] Dr. Joanne Foster: the discussion, first of all, around what it is they want to do and make sure that it’s realistic. I mean, someone who wants to ride a horse may not be able to have a horse. I mean, just Stickley.

[00:26:13] So you have to make sure that what they want to do is, is, is realistic and that there might be alternatives or there might be negotiation or compromise that needs to be done. Keep in mind, your own family dynamic and, and finances and, and, and what kinds of things you can realistically put in place. Because technology is there.

[00:26:32] We have opportunities to explore different options. So, uh, that makes it a little bit better. And, and, and again, the, co-creation the idea that children have to think about what really matters to them and to build upon what it is they can already do. So, For example, let’s say somebody wants to build a flying machine.

[00:26:51] Well, that’s a great idea. Let’s build a flying machine, but it’s not going to happen. And let’s, you know, a little bit about, aerodynamics, you go online, you find books, you, you learn what makes, makes things fly. You build from what it is that you already know. Uh, and those are the beginning steps to, to, to work with help a child child find their beginning steps before they try to sort of hit the ground running.

[00:27:17] Sophia Elliott: I love that because we talk a lot about, you know, strength based learning and supporting our kids in terms of focusing on their strengths and interests. So this feels like a really nice framework. Uh, To lean on in order to, to support them in that way, if you’ve kind of mapped out, um, you know, mapped that out further with a bit of guidance for us and, and different kinds of ways that we can support our kids, you know, in their interests because.

[00:27:51] It can be a bit overwhelming for parents to kind of go, Mmm. Okay. Where do I go from here? So it’s really nice sometimes to have, a bit of a roadmap of, oh, okay. Here’s a whole bunch of options and ideas and strategies and tools. What’s going to work for us as a family. What’s going to be the right fit for my child, as well as like you say, the family logistics as well.

[00:28:13] So. Right. Being

[00:28:15] Dr. Joanne Foster: open to possibilities, but making sure they’re practical, that’s, that’s really important. And also connecting with the teacher in ways that are meaningful and, and advocating for more professional development for teachers as well, so that they can actually learn to differentiate for children.

[00:28:33] More specifically and more broadly and more stupidly. I think those are really important because we want to make sure that the teachers have the kinds of supports and tools and know how to be able to support children’s learning in the best way possible. So parents can advocate, they can be open to possibilities and can.

[00:28:51] Look for activities that are, multi-dimensional and that, that are exciting. We, we all like to do things. Exciting and fun and bring us joy. And, and, you know, kids are no different, you know, you, you, you stick a pile of the busy work in front of them or you, you give them stuff, that’s boring, they’re just gonna tune out.

[00:29:15] So, you know, we have to, we have to, we can be better than that.

[00:29:20] Sophia Elliott: Yeah, absolutely. And that’s something that always Say is, you know, as well. It’s like, we can, we can do better. And so. Yeah, we’ve talked about how do we motivate kids who might be suffering with a bit of lack of motivation. And we’ve talked about effort and we’ve come around to this idea of the optimal match and that there are different ways and tools and strategies that we can use to inspire them and tap into that sort of sense of curiosity of the world and bring that learning back to life.

[00:29:52] If they’re sort of struggling and. Uh, I think that’s a really nice wrap-around and you know, at the same time, acknowledging sometimes we do need a bit of downtime cause we are knackered. Or in this household scanner, isn’t an another word that we use my husband’s Scottish. Start that one again, scan it.

[00:30:12] It’s a Scottish word and it’s similar to knackered, but I think it’s even more. Exhausted. So scan it. Can you spell that? I’m not sure that I can I’ll I’ll look it up. Send me an email.

[00:30:32] Yeah, I love it. It’s very descriptive. It just kind of, for me, it just, this image of a real exhaustion and just, yeah, nothing left in the tank. Uh, so what is a great

[00:30:44] Dr. Joanne Foster: love them? That’s why I write.

[00:30:46] Sophia Elliott: Yeah, absolutely. And, and Joanne, you are a prolific writer. There’s so many articles. I will absolutely share those links that we’ve talked about today.

[00:30:58] Because there’s a lot of great, uh, tips and strategies and tools for parents in all of those articles. And so I guess just as we wrap up any kind of. Thoughts for parents on, on just those topics of, you know, we’ve talked about effort and motivation and I guess rest.

[00:31:17] Dr. Joanne Foster: Yeah. I think the first is that you have to create an environment of safety and trust for your child, that they know that at home, they can they they’ve got someone to go to and You know, they’re always peddling so quickly.

[00:31:31] And to sometimes to, to acknowledge that they don’t have to dazzle all the time. And th that it’s okay. And at home it’s, it’s, it’s secure and it’s safe. And this is really important, like now, especially during these times of challenge and change that the whole world is going through. Stay attuned to your child’s interests and abilities.

[00:31:52] And and, and, and try to make that match between what it is they want to learn and need to learn and what it is that’s being provided for them. You know, bridging any gaps and paying attention to. Is that, they’re, they’re wondering about, you know, you mentioned curiosity that sense of wonder that, that knowledge acquisition, and also the skills that they might need in order to be able to next level to go to go in and to advance themselves further.

[00:32:17] And I think what, what fits your child in, in the context of your family, which we mentioned, and I think setting good examples. If parents are in, in a good position to be able to see. Examples around how to cope, how to uh, balance responsibilities, time management, time for play in reading and reflection and, uh, and all those other things that, that are part of.

[00:32:42] Of the real world. I mean, academics and school is not everything. And and there’s a whole lot more that goes on. So, so being being aware of that setting, good examples and, and showing too that, you know, you are a lifelong learner, you are creative, you are doing things that, that, that matter, because it’s kind of like when you go on an airplane and They tell you to put your own oxygen mask on before you put one on your child.

[00:33:06] It’s the same thing as parents. We, we need to. Look after ourselves self care and, and making sure that we can breathe, that we’re not so knackered that we’re out. And, and I think that’s a really important thing. So I guess the first one was safety and trust and environment of safety and trust.

[00:33:23] The second is being attuned to your child and the third is to, to be available and intersect good examples around what it is that, that really matter in life.

[00:33:33] Sophia Elliott: Yeah, I absolutely hear you on all of those factors. And especially on, putting the oxygen mask on yourself first and because. Yeah, we all get sort of worn down with challenging parenting and it can be really hard and we’re not at our best as parents, if we’re not, if you know, if our cup is empty and it’s hard to find time to remedy that, but definitely something that needs to be a priority.

[00:34:01] I think something I’m working on anyway

[00:34:03] Dr. Joanne Foster: we all are working on it these

[00:34:08] Sophia Elliott: days. Yeah, it is. It’s really tricky. It is really true. Uh, figuring out what it is that rejuvenates you has been a topic this whole year has been something, a question I’ve been asking myself. Because I think, you know, especially as a parent, uh, and a mum that I think the dads as well, you lose yourself for, for a long while as a parent.

[00:34:29] And then you need to kind of figure out, right. You know, what do I love? What rejuvenates me and. And if I’ve got that spark, well, they’re not going to parent better because I’m going to be grounded and rested and in coming from a better place. And, and that leads to our children feeling safer and supported and all of those things.

[00:34:50] So, yeah. Yeah. Really great note to end on, Joanne, thank you so much for joining us today. It’s been really lovely to have this chat with you and to dig a little bit deeper into some of those You know, some of those challenges around motivation and effort and finding those optimal matches for our kids.

[00:35:10] And I’ll definitely put links into your books as well. Yeah. Because a great opportunity for parents to find a roadmap there and lots of tools and strategies and ideas to put these things into practice. I thank you so much.

[00:35:25] Dr. Joanne Foster: Thank you. It’s been a pleasure chatting with you and I’ve learned two new words to

[00:35:30] Sophia Elliott: know it’s a good day.

[00:35:31] I’ll

[00:35:35] Dr. Joanne Foster: absolutely. Thank, you know, this has been a treat and I just want to take a minute to thank you for all that you do for the gifted community, the information that you share, the opportunities you provide for people to be able to express themselves and convey information. Basically to connect and strengthen one another.

[00:35:54] So that’s a really important job that you do and you do it so well. So thank you.

[00:35:59] Sophia Elliott: Oh, no worries. It’s an absolute privilege. Thank you very much teas.