#007 Talking parenting and Megan’s (Twice) Exceptional Life – Podcast

00:04:55               but there’s also so many cool and amazing things about him being a gifted child. And I still am learning, you know, there’s a lot to learn still at this point. Oh, absolutely. And I totally feel you in terms of both that, that questioning of ourselves as parents, it’s like, what am I doing wrong? This seems to be so hard.

00:05:17               And also on my youngest is just, just turning four this weekend. And he has been a really intense kid. And yeah, it’s really tricky when our idea of what parenting is of what having kids is doesn’t mean out in reality. I think a lot of parents feel that pressure of, is it me? Am I doing something wrong? It’s a very comforting to start to get those answers.

00:05:48               Isn’t it start to get an explanation for, for some of the behavior and some of those situations that start to, so he was a really intense little child and you started to get some answers around giftedness, but he’s actually twice exceptional. So I feel like there’s more to this story There, there sure is, you know, it’s a never ending story.

00:06:13               Oh, I took the diagnosis, I guess it was more of a label, but I, I was happy to hear what it was that he was struggling with. And other people would ask me, you know, why are you, why do you so desperately want a name to this? And I would say, because I feel that I’m doing something wrong.

00:06:35               I’m doing a disservice to my child. I’m not meeting his needs to throw a word on. That makes me feel better, to be honest. And then I, I can have a little more confidence in what I’m doing. Labeling sometimes gets a bad rep, but for me, I agree. It’s about actually having a language for something it’s less about putting someone in a box it’s more about actually starting to see them and understand them.

00:07:00               It can be really powerful. I think I agree completely what we have found over the last couple of years. And he is seven now seven and a half is that he is struggling with at the very least anxiety. And that is his, his E if you will, we notice this daily anxiety over things that he cannot control. It’s not really your typical anxiety,

00:07:24               like a worrying child. He’s not really a worrier. It is more like a deeper level anxiety over acceptance, acceptance from others and of himself. You know, it comes up in every moment of the day with that. We do believe, you know, he shows signs of ADHD. He very much gets lost and, and hyper focuses and I have read,

00:07:52               and I’m sure, you know, as well that there’s such an overlap between gifted behaviors and anxiety, ADHD behaviors. And it’s hard to know which one is in play or maybe it’s both. Absolutely. I find it quite fascinating that these neurodiverse characteristics and behaviors are seem so interlinked. We’d love to see more research and more information about that because I don’t think it’s a coincidence that if we say giftedness for one,

00:08:28               it is, and that is it’s being something that’s neurodiverse. Their brains are different than it makes sense in a way that it might have similarities with ADHD and, and even similar behaviors or characteristics to some autism spectrum characteristics too. Yes. In fact, we’ve had him, you know, looked at for an autism is such a very broad spectrum, but he was in an early intervention program as a toddler where they did a formal autism assessment.

00:09:01               And again, four years old, and again, at six years old and each time from three different people, they said, no, no, it doesn’t appear to be autism related in his early intervention assessment. We were told he was just quirky. Was the word she used Quirky. It’s it’s such a great word and fits so many things. Yeah,

00:09:23               It sure does. So, So you went through this process, you’ve been able to understand that autism is not a factor, but anxiety plays a huge role. And gifted kids are these hypersensitive little beings, aren’t they? So definitely prone to anxiety. But like you say, not your run of the mill anxiety, that would be too easy, like a very deep seated sense of,

00:09:55               yeah. It’s almost like their place in the world. Isn’t it? Their sense of self. And even as a young child, my son hates praise. He only likes praise. If he thinks he deserves it, if he has done something that he does not think deserves praise and you are to give him praise, he will just lose his marbles. And that started at age three.

00:10:20               It was very, you know, he does, he reads right through adults who talk to him as if he is, you know, a small child, but he read through that at age three and four as well. He was unable. He feels talked down upon. He feels used. He feels, it’s a very strange concept. And he doesn’t really use words to express this,

00:10:42               but over so many years of trying to figure him out, that’s the conclusion I’ve come to. He needs to feel a sense of confidence and pride in himself and hearing it from other people, convinces him the opposite, convinces him. Otherwise, that’s just one example of his daily anxieties. Wow. That makes it really hard. Doesn’t it? There are certain phrases.

00:11:09               You learn your children, you as well. Of course, you know, I have learned that great job is not effective and it’s really not effective for any child. To be honest, you certainly need to be specific, but it has to be, you know, you have to read the child when he’s showing you a painting. If he feels that he didn’t do well on it,

00:11:29               or God forbid, he made a mistake because he is a perfectionist then for me to say, Oh, that mistakes, no big deal. This picture looks amazing. Forget it. That’s almost an insult to him. And it hurts more. It’s a tough situation to be in as a parent. And there’s definitely been years and moments where we are walking on eggshells,

00:11:49               trying to say the right thing or not say something that’s going set him off. And you know, what is a daily, a daily battle and some days are wonderful and some days are really challenging. Yeah. I empathize completely with the walking on eggshells. It’s really hard to live in that state of hyper alertness as well. Isn’t it like that’s exhausting.

00:12:12               And I know two things that are important to you is importance of connecting with your child, but also help for parents. So you’ve touched on both of them, just there, you know, the importance of first of all, connecting with an understanding your child and, and how they’re working, but also the need for us as parents to really try and look after ourselves and get support.

00:12:38               Absolutely. When it comes to connecting with your child. What I have come back to after again, many years of challenges is that if it’s not me, who’s going to support my child 100% and understand them as well as I can then who else is going to, certainly my husband is on board and family is on board and teachers are on board, but from my position,

00:13:04               certainly I feel this deep rooted need to take him as he is. And over the years, I have heard everything from, you need to discipline him better. You need to be tougher on him. You need to not tolerate certain behaviors. It doesn’t matter what his diagnosis is. You don’t tolerate behaviors. You need to put him in timeouts in terms of discipline styles.

00:13:29               I don’t really have any great ones. Honestly, I do think taking a break in another room is a great idea, but my twice exceptional son won’t take a break. So timeouts over the years, or, you know, let’s go to a new space. He feels isolated and actually scared when, when we do that, you know, so it’s been everything over the years to you or not.

00:13:50               I’m getting the message you are not doing what is right for him. And I kept trying so many different strategies and none of them came even close to working. And finally, I kind of just threw it all out the window and said, who is my child? Meet him where he is. This is what he’s capable of right now, get on his level,

00:14:10               get, you know, eye to eye and, and try to understand where he is coming from. Now. We still have moments where if you know that he might need a break in another room, there are moments where of course consequences are needed, but way fewer than there used to be, I was overdoing it. I was trying to exert my control.

00:14:30               None of those worked, you know, none of those things work at all, especially with a sensitive and intense child. Like I have, I, that absolutely resonates with me. And there’s certainly a pressure. I think, you know, I think it’s generational, isn’t it. In the past, there has been that acceptance of being much harder on kids.

00:14:53               And so modern parenting, I think gets a lot of flack about not being hard enough. And I, I totally understand where you’re coming from because all of my kids are really sensitive. They don’t need a heavy hands and that can come across as us not being hard enough. But actually it’s like you say, we do. We get our kids. And we know that they do not need that really,

00:15:21               you know, heaviness in, in terms of, if they’ve done something wrong, if they’re doing something wrong because it just, it just crushes them and you can see it, you know, anytime that you know, and we’re not perfect parents at all. And we all, we all have our moments, but like you say, we’re getting better and we’re getting better.

00:15:42               But if we have that moment where we come down a bit too hard on our kids, it’s kind of like, Oh, you can see them just fold in on themselves. And immediately it’s like, Oh my God, I’m doing damage. You know? And it’s like retracting and regaining that sense of calm and just dealing with it in a different way,

00:16:03               because they’re so hyper alert to the world and they don’t want to disappoint. And they’re very critical on themselves. And they’re very sensitive. And actually we had a situation once where I used to take my kids swimming and they would have a 30 minute lesson where the about half a dozen other kids. So they’d all jump in. They do whatever the teacher said to them.

00:16:28               And one day I noticed one of the teachers was being quite firm with my eldest and I just thought, Oh, he doesn’t need that level of firmness. I appreciate she’s trying to manage half a dozen kids. Some kids probably do need that. I didn’t say anything, but I just kind of was watching and, and paying close attention. And sure enough,

00:16:52               my son developed anxiety about the swim lesson to the point that when we went swimming, he wanted to vomit. Like he was so anxious and his stomach ate and he was, he would actually reach like dry reach sometimes. And we obviously stopped going swimming. But I, I know that it was due to just, just being too heavy with him and not in a malicious way,

00:17:18               but just that was too much for him. So they are really sensitive kids. It’s really hard to find that space as a parent. Isn’t it? It’s tricky actually. Absolutely. It’s funny that you mentioned swimming lessons, as we have tried swimming lessons a handful of times, and it has been a nightmare every time, my twice exceptional child, he cannot be convinced.

00:17:43               He cannot, you cannot change his mind. You cannot use your adult reasoning powers on him, you know, and say, Hey, I know what’s best for you. Just trust me and do what I say that is not going to work with my child. So we have really struggled with swimming lessons too. I have found that in the past year,

00:18:03               since I have kind of had this new awakening to him and his needs, my relationship with him has flourished. He trusts me. There is this, this understanding of who he is, and I don’t try to change any of it. I may guide him to a different choice if, if he lets me. But instead of, as you said, putting down that heavy hand of who’s in charge and I’m the mom and you’re the kid,

00:18:31               he is sensitive. And he, he is more critical of himself than I could ever be of him. So to get on For sure, to get on his level and, and appreciate him where he’s at, no matter the good and the bad, all of a sudden, he has been way, I don’t know, calmer with me. We have had a great year,

00:18:56               and I think that’s due to my patients with him and changing my demeanor around him, because I want to understand him and connect with him. A tool that We discovered through. One of the kids, psychologists was the zones of regulation, you know, and it’s not, yeah, you might be familiar with those. It’s not about good and bad. Cause all feelings are valid.

00:19:20               It’s a green is your karma, low energy. Then you get orange, which is higher energy. And then red is obviously anger and let you know more uncomfortable feelings. And so we use that language a lot and I use it. So sometimes I will just say, you know, like mummy is getting into the orange zone. I’m feeling really frustrated.

00:19:49               We all need to get out the house because we have an appointment and I’m, I’ve asked you five times to do X, Y, Z. I really need everybody’s help. And, or, or, you know, if I, in that moment, if I do lose it, I actually apologize. I say, mommy was feeling very frustrated. What I said was not nice.

00:20:10               I need to have some time how I actually give myself time out. And actually I think my son would have been about, Oh geez, he was about four. And at that time I had a four year old, a two year old and a newborn. Right. And so you can imagine not, not my finest parenting moments during that period of time,

00:20:36               none of my kids slept. And I was having one of those moments. And my four year old just said to me, mommy, Jeannie, some time in your room. And I was like, you know what? Yeah, I do put myself in my room and I, yeah. I try to model those things for my kids taking time out and just naming my feelings and also accepting when I don’t behave as well as I could behave.

00:21:03               And, you know, so it’s not just all about their behavior. So now I think that helps us. Connect just that being honest with each other about those moments as well. I agree. I have done similar things and I think giving yourself a mommy time-out is a very solid parenting strategy. Absolutely. For any parent, I often get all the kids in the car,

00:21:30               especially the, you know, the carpooling days and we’ll get everyone in the car, all the bags and I’ll go, right. I just have to get something from the house I run back inside and I just stopped. I’ve done that quiet. Yes. Right. Okay. Go back to the car a little mommy moment. And so that’s a big thing for you as well.

00:21:51               Isn’t it help for parents supporting for parents acknowledging how hard this is for us, because giftedness is not easy and there’s a real myth. I think that gifted kids are just a breeze and, and they’re amazing, but it’s also really challenging as a parent. Yes. I think there’s a couple things there. The word gifted first of all, is, is very stereotyped.

00:22:15               You know, even with friends, you know, by saying, ah, my son is, my son is gifted and it kind of, I think it can be interpreted as bragging and Oh, you know, look at your child. They’re so smart or whatever they think. And it really, it’s not about that at all. I do think that is a cool,

00:22:33               it’s a cool benefit. It’s, it’s cool that my son who struggles with so many things loves birds of prey and they’re different wingspans and, and there’s really cool things about that, but it’s just about the way his brain works and the way he takes in information and being twice exceptional means he’s also got some struggles on the other end. And so in terms of getting that help,

00:22:55               it’s one of the reasons why I have recently started my website when I was searching the internet, looking for help, I really struggled to find it. I struggled to find other parents in similar positions. People did have challenges with their children, but it was more about like we discussed before discipline and consequences and being a stronger parent. Even my son’s well-meaning school last year,

00:23:24               not, not this year, but last year even sent a parenting book home for me to read. And it was about how to give your child two choices. And I just, I, you know, they don’t know me and it’s okay. I side, because I’ve been giving my son two choices since he was born, he is a typical child and trying to find that can be extremely challenging and it was very isolating.

00:23:48               It was lonely. It was depressing. I was thinking that there’s something wrong with my son. I can’t meet his needs. I am not a good parent. Why is it, you know, why is this happening? What can I do? And I feel so alone. And so now that I can kind of see the light, I want to offer that support to,

00:24:09               to other families and parents and maybe mothers specifically, who just think that it’s their fault and that really your child is wonderful. And, and it’s about that connection piece to find who they are and change your whole outlook of the situation. And so reaching out for help is an absolute, crucial thing to do, you know, from friends, family, if they’re willing to help.

00:24:32               And certainly the internet can be helpful too. I think that it’s, it’s so tricky. And I think that there is a real process of mourning as well. Yes. In this journey you, because I think when we become parents, we have this idea and I was very naive to it. I didn’t have any relatives or friends with young kids. It was all very new to me.

00:25:00               You have this idea in your head about what it will be about you as a parent about your children. Inevitably, I think that vision is about fitting in because as humans, we just, we naturally want to be a part of our community, right. And I think that when it doesn’t seem to be working, things seem to be wrong. And then we get labels and acknowledgements that there are differences.

00:25:33               I think on a level we actually mourn that we’re not fitting into the box as much as we might enjoy and love of differences. I think there’s a real mourning that things haven’t gone the way we thought they would go, or we haven’t seemed to be like everyone else. And, you know, I think there’s many layers to that. I think it’s a part of that process of,

00:26:03               and a part of that journey is to acknowledge that and just work through it and accepted almost as a real thing. I don’t know if you felt that way as well. Yes. I agree with that. I think. And that’s even why it’s so important to find a community and it doesn’t have to be in person. It can be through, you know,

00:26:25               Facebook groups or Instagram pages or websites or whatever, but finding other people, you know, it was a game changer for me to join. Searchie I found a couple of Facebook groups. I found a bit helpful listening to podcasts and going, Oh my gosh, this is my child. Here. He is. He doesn’t fit into any other boxes, but here he fits into this one.

00:26:49               Finally, I have, you know, I have a name for this it’s twice exceptionality gifted. I see. Okay. And yes, there is a morning there. He struggles socially. He, you know, his, his struggles with making friends in an, in an assertive way. And he definitely, I, I worry about him feeling ostracized as he gets older.

00:27:14               And he said he has made comments, you know, he’s very self-aware and aware of the way other people might view him. So he, he keeps quiet in school. He doesn’t want people to notice that he feels different and that he knows things that they don’t. And you know, it is, it’s a, it is a morning. I had to come around and say,

00:27:32               you know, I have two other children and they, well, they do kind of fit in the box. So this is what it is. And we’re going to work together and see how I can help him. And one of the things that I think is helping him fit in the box is trying to find things that he is good at that make him feel confident that maybe we could enroll him in such as gymnastics,

00:27:56               or he’s recently taken an interest in climbing. And so maybe joining a climbing gym, he’s a fast runner. I hope to put him in some sort of, you know, running club as he gets older robotics and Legos and engineering and all of that. So those are the places where, you know, finding my crew and finding my people. It might take some time and I really still haven’t found them yet,

00:28:22               but I know that I will eventually, and he will find his people too. And I do think that is so important. Yeah, absolutely. I think you’re right. It’s a complete game changer and it was for me as well. And I think that’s probably at the heart of why, you know, you and I are sitting here talking to each other is because we acknowledge like how amazing that is.

00:28:44               And we want to share that with other people. And for us, we, we were lucky. We found a school for gifted kids. And so my, our children, I’ve got a daughter and a son there and my youngest most likely to attend. And so they found kids who spoke the same language, you know, they’re, they’re all a bunch of quirky kids.

00:29:08               They’ve all got different strengths and different weaknesses. There’s a whole mix of giftedness and twice exceptionality in there, but they are just who they are. Like, they are just normal, actually one, one child who, who started at the school, made the comment to his parents. He’s like mama, we found a school of just normal kids, you know,

00:29:34               because he’d felt so out of it previously. And, and as a parent community, I got to say, we’re a bunch of quirky parents who have also found a place to belong. And, and it’s really nice. And, and that’s, I think just what anyone is looking for, isn’t it. We just want a place to belong and be sane and feel as though we are valued and,

00:30:01               and just a part of that community. I wanted part of that community. So yeah, it’s, I think it’s, once you’ve been through that process of figuring it out, it’s the next step, you’ve got to find a place like that. Yeah. I think that’s crucial for a parent’s mental health. And, you know, I, I, I am jealous that you have a gifted school nearby.

00:30:27               We, we don’t, and, you know, we have a wonderful community. I don’t think people quite understand my son yet, but most people don’t and even I did not until recently. And so we’re just going to keep trying, I, you know, I, if I’m struggling to find a community, I decided, well, maybe I should just make my own.

00:30:47               And other people can find me because I’m really having a hard time finding local people who, who get it. And that’s, you know, an ongoing journey, like you said. Yeah, absolutely. There’s nothing better than actually being able to look at someone face to face over a coffee and share the parenting highs and lows. And I think as well,

00:31:11               that safe space is as much about sharing the challenges as it is about sharing the successes. Because I think there is a real feeling that we’re not allowed to celebrate our gifted kids successes because somehow they’re less valuable because they’re gifted, but they’re not less valuable. You know, it’s, they’re no less valuable than sharing the successes of a child. Who’s really great at sport or really great at art or really great at music.

00:31:40               I mean, they’re all gifted. I completely agree for me. This is a big part of why I created our gifted kids is so that we can start having these conversations and, and build that community together. Because when I started talking about this stuff and it has not been easy, there is that taboo. And I had to really get over that taboo to talk about the fact that I have gifted kids,

00:32:06               let alone splash myself all over the internet. I have been a here, right? I’ve been amazed at how many people have said, well, actually my child, myself, my grandchild, there is more giftedness and twice exceptionality out there than we realize, because I think we’ve not felt we’ve had a safe space to talk about these things. Yes. I agree.

00:32:35               I’m actually, I’m an elementary school teacher and I now can sort of look at my students in new way and, and recognize in them, you know, that looks like twice exceptionality. And I think it’s under appreciated. And part of the, the reason for that is because at least here in the States, you know, giftedness is really technically, it’s really a special need.

00:33:00               You know, it’s a child who is gifted needs something academically that traditional schooling cannot provide just as someone who’s struggling academically need something extra as well. But we don’t recognize giftedness as, you know, needing special assistance or, you know, acceleration and you’d have to find a separate school for that. And so, because it is not this general term society does not speak of giftedness in a,

00:33:33               a typical way. And so you’re right. It’s, it’s just this, Hey, you know, my son just mastered, you know, division and of, of fractions. Yay. This is an, a wonderful accomplishment and people may say, Oh, okay, crazy lady. But it’s really not. It’s the same as someone saying, I just learned this piece on the piano,

00:33:55               or I just had my, I hit a home run in baseball or whatever it is. It is something that generally speaking people do not understand. But I agree with you. I think there’s lots of people out there who are gifted and twice exceptional and they don’t even know it. Yeah, absolutely. And that’s the funny thing when you, you meet more and more people and you,

00:34:20               you just start, you just start spotting people. It’s, it’s really interesting. I’ll be, I did a kind of a leadership program this year. And amongst that group, you know, there were times I’m just sitting here and I’m like, dang, you cannot swing a cat in this room for Haiti, a gifted person. Like you see the clues and you know what to look for.

00:34:42               It’s really interesting, but none of those people would recognize themselves as that or understanding that. But I think the really interesting thing is, and it, and look, it is a really unfortunate label, but it’s the best we’ve got at the moment is that when you, when you look at what giftedness is, it can explain a lot about yourself and it can make your life make sense.

00:35:10               And it, I think it helps you look at things about, about yourself and your life in a different way. That gives you a sense of relief and understanding. And for me, that’s really an important thing that I want to share that we go through this journey usually starts with our kids, but along the way, we learn a lot about ourselves as well,

00:35:32               because let’s face it. Our kids are little mirrors of, of awesome. They absolutely, you Know, it’s funny and looking at my son, I can see now how he very much mirrors my husband. And I do think that my husband is probably twice exceptional as well. And that flew under the radar, his whole life. And really when it comes down to it,

00:35:54               you know, parents, we want our children to be happy, right? This is not about my son getting the best grades in school, you know, proving his worth in terms of how smart he is. It is not about any of that. It’s cool that he can memorize a map, but it’s not about that. It is about self-love and self-acceptance and confidence.

00:36:17               And knowing that he has a support system at home in those challenging moments, those intense moments, not just the good, but the bad too. And that’s really the ultimate goal here. And when you, when you reframe it that way, well, that changes everything. And so now, you know, it’s my ultimate goal, as I’ve mentioned to kind of,

00:36:34               you know, understand my child as much as I possibly can. Yeah, absolutely. So where can people find you on, on the internet? Well, I have a website this twice exceptional life.com. It’s recently launched. I’m looking to use it in a couple of ways. It’s going to have a blog and talking about experiences we have in our house here that I think people can,

00:37:02               you know, relate to. But also I’m hoping to have some checklists and some guides for parents who have just heard that term twice exceptional, and they don’t know where to start. I have some resources there as well podcast. I can’t wait to add this one to the list. Of course, recommendations Facebook groups. I’m also on Instagram this twice exceptional life as well.

00:37:24               And I’m looking to build that community for those parents who feel that loneliness and isolation. And that’s, that’s kind of my ultimate goal here. Yeah, absolutely. And it’s a beautiful goal and I’m really looking forward to a future podcast when you can share with us what you’ve been up to as well. Yeah. And we can see how that journey is going for you.

00:37:47               So thank you so much for your time today. Yeah. You know, it’s a great opportunity. I really appreciate you. You giving me the time to, to share that message. Thank you so much. Thank you, Megan. That’s been great. Thanks. If you enjoyed this episode and it inspired you in some way, I’d love to hear about your biggest takeaway in the comments for more episodes,

00:38:08               you can subscribe and to help others find our podcast. Please leave a review. You can find show notes and more resources@ourgiftedkids.com and connect with us on Facebook and Instagram. See you in the same place next week.

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