#075 Parents Guide to Gifted Kids’ First Years of School Series #1 Part 2 w/ Emily

And so the question is what’s better for gifted, right? Because it would be nice just to go, oh, this one’s better, or That one’s better. But the truth is you can’t divide them that way. So, sorry, . I know that sucks not just to have a solid answer

so unfortunately it’s not as simple as saying Go state or go private. And you’ll find a good school because it just doesn’t work that way. There’s no guarantees in either camp. A good school often comes down to the leadership unfortunately, although sometimes it can be helpful to know that if you get a good sense of where the principal stands in terms of gifted education you’ll at least get a sense of.

What you going to either have to work with or to fight against. , the principal who says We have children with many gifts, that’s gonna be a constant battle. The principal who says, well, my daughter actually did early entry, go, ah, I’ve got something to work with there. ., and a principal who actually says, oh, well I’ve got a qualification, or We’ve got ex teachers who have qualifications [00:04:00] gifted ed, and here’s our gifted program.

Bingo. Right? And that could be state, it could be private. I know people who have been to very expensive private schools, and that is unfortunately no guarantee that your gifted child will get their needs met. And not just broken, which was their experience. So it’s not easy and even as easy to say, if you spend a lot of money, you’ll get your what you want, because that’s not even a guarantee.

It’s just tricky. And it’s just that hard work of having to visit the schools. And like you said, get a sense of is it safe to talk about this with this principal? And I think the reality is most parents will share the same experience as you and be like, desperately wanting just to go, right. My kids gifted, yay or nay, like, you know, just, let’s cut and let’s just cut to the chase here.

But not feeling like we can be that upfront and [00:05:00] looking for clues as to how much we can divulge and, and what kind of a conversation we can have. But not easy. Right?

Emily : Yeah. No, it’s definitely, it’s definitely tricky trying to Yeah. Navigate all of that. And I think at the beginning of the year for us, we, we did think it was as simple as, do we go to our locally zoned government school, which we could walk to, um mm-hmm.

or a local private school, which we could also walk to. And that, that we thought that was as simple as that. They were the two choices mm-hmm. and then suddenly, we were considering relocating and just anything became an option. But you’re also, considering logistics and working, how, how are you supposed to, do dropoffs and pickups whilst working and everything else.

So it’s. . It kind of, yeah, it felt like our whole life was kind of thrown up in the air and everything was an option, but then so many options were taken away as well. And I think for us as well, like after I did meet with that school and that principal, and I was like, okay, this, I think I’ve, I think I’ve got a good [00:06:00] option here.

I then decided to call, like, phone call without saying who I was. All of, basically all of the schools local to us that were logistically viable. And just be upfront and actually speak to them and say, Hey, my child’s gifted. Do you have experiences with this? What’s your understanding of it?

And some. of the conversations were, you could tell that they wanted to understand, but they didn’t. One school was like, oh, you know, the way you’re describing your child sounds like they’ve got pretty unique needs. And I was kind of like, I haven’t described anything about my child. I haven’t said anything.

And so, you know, it was kind of, they were already putting ’em in a too hard basket. And then there was one school that I spoke to who was so amazing. I was probably on the phone to them for about 40 minutes. They were full . They didn’t have any capacity for next year’s enrollments, but they still spoke to me and they got it.

And they they suggested other schools that would be good options, but we would, you know, need to relocate for them. But it was just so comforting to be able [00:07:00] to have just that one conversation with somebody who got it, who talked to me about what to expect, who talked to me about Just, I guess just to know that there were options out there.

And I know that, like, obviously you say that we’re ahead of the game in terms of, well, he’s four and he’s been identified as being gifted, but I wish that, you know, I wish we knew when he was two, so that he was on the list for that school. Yeah. So, yeah. But I think it was still really good to call back all of those schools and just have those conversations and sort of leave no stone unturned.

Yeah.

Sophia Elliott: And well done for doing that. Because the truth is, as difficult as it is, as parents, we, we need to be that parent. The conversation we need to have with these principals is literally like, my kid is gifted. Here’s a report. I’m not, you know, I’m not making it up. Here’s a report. What, how can you meet their needs?

Who here has qualifications in gifted ed? Tell me about your gifted program. What kind of [00:08:00] acceleration do you do? What kind of enrichment do you do? These are the kinds of questions that are completely reasonable to ask. And one of the reasons I’ve referred to that a E G T article is because it, it actually validates that which is really nice.

I’m like, oh, that’s a really nice article. And it even sort of says, actually, I’ve got it here. So it says, schools, preschools and educators should continually provide challenge as a part of an appropriate and stimulating curriculum. Gain the skills and knowledge to create optimal and flexible learning environments. Create a learning environment where a child’s potential talent and natural abilities allow themselves to be revealed.

Recognize a child’s strengths and interest, respond to the readiness of learners, foster curiosity, creativity, imagination, and perseverance. And extend a child’s thinking like they should do all these things. And it’s really sad that they don’t, in many cases, just lack that [00:09:00] expertise in this particular area.

And so therefore, it’s completely reasonable as a parent to be able to go, my kid is gifted. What is your program? Who in the school is qualified? And yet it’s so hard to do, it’s just such a hard conversation to have at the same time. So I think it’s wonderful that you went back and did it over the phone where you, you know, you felt like you had a bit of cover and the ability just to kind of tell it how it was like, and that’s the thing, it’s like, do it anyway that you can and need to do these things, but this is, you know, this is the work that we need to do as parents.

And I’m so pleased that you did find a school that. was able to validate that for you because they are out there. Like we can be very doom and gloom and I don’t ever want to be because they are out there, but it’s just harder to find them.

Emily : Yeah. I think, yeah, when you just having that one conversation was just really validating [00:10:00] as a parent, especially like, just sort of this whole thing being still very new to us.

Mm-hmm. , it’s like, no, I didn’t make all this up. Like, I’m not being crazy. I’m not asking for too much. And like this, , this person that I spoke to was basically like, you know, you might, you might need to consider moving house. I was just like, oh my gosh. Like, you know, this is all overwhelming enough.

So I think that’s where we kind of came to the decision of, all right, we’ll start with prep learn what we need to learn from that experience, and then if we need to consider relocating, at least we’ll know what we’re relocating for. Because I, I sort of. Also don’t necessarily think that, you know, one school that caters to gifted children is the school for all gifted children.

Cause I feel like they’re, they’re probably all different as well. So I kind of wanna have more of an understanding of his individual needs and how he goes and then find a school that’s gonna meet those needs specifically. Not just like an umbrella of, of gifted, if I even find that anyway, . [00:11:00] So, yeah, I think the next year is just kind of gonna be another, you know, input of information to inform our decisions, you know, for the next couple of years.

Sophia Elliott: Yeah, absolutely. And I think that’s a great idea because. We can get very caught up in parents of feeling like we need to solve the problem immediately. Like, it’s I need to do it now. You know, this week, today. And it’s like this journey with our kids is, is the long game. You know, and, and in as much as there are times where we need to take action and make things happen, it’s also okay just to take a big deep breath and consider options.

And the reality is like many families do end up moving to access different schools. And that’s a huge, that’s a huge thing for a family and not something Many families have to do because I, I, there is a school five minutes from here where I’m living that we don’t get to go. We drive past every day [00:12:00] and drive another 30 minutes to get to the school that meets the needs of our kids.

And unfortunately you know, that’s a very common experience for, for families of gifted kids.

 But that can lead us on to, , what are our expectations that we might have of a school. So we find the school, we’ve decided when they should start. We found our school. We’re giving it a bash.

What might our expectations be? And generally speaking, I’ll refer [00:13:00] back to our levels of giftedness because again, it depends on the kid and kind of where they’re at and what they’re needing. You know, , but generally speaking, gifted kids need acceleration of some kind right up to our profoundly gifted kids who need this sort of radical acce acceleration.

You know, differentiation should be a part of any class, and that’s where the teacher, you know, is teaching, you know, one particular subject matter, but is able to differentiate that to allow for all of the different learners within that space. But unfortunately, what research shows us is teachers can be differentiating from anywhere from like six to 12 different levels within one class.

And that’s extreme. Like our teachers are people desperately trying to do their best. Do not get. Informed about gifted education in their undergrad. And so [00:14:00] generally speaking, very few universities will actually teach teachers about gifted kids. So they’re already starting, you know, at a loss to help these kids.

And so you need to specifically do like a graduate certificate or a master’s in gifted education. So it’s not a great base. And the, at the very least what your expectations are is an openness or a willingness. For example, one of my children’s went to a kindergarten. I was very upfront because I had to be about where we were at and what we needed.

And they were very upfront and said, well, we’re not really across the gifted thing, but we’re up for learning about it and we are really up for meeting your child’s needs. And true to their word, they did. We had this amazing year where that child was supported beautifully. And so at the very least, you need people who are willing to work with you and, and have [00:15:00] that approach where we are building that community around the child, the student and working together.

And, and when it comes to being that parent, advocating, unfortunately as a parent of a gifted kid, it is our job to advocate their whole during their whole entire schooling experience. It’s probably something that we’ll, we’ll always need to do through that whole journey because they just don’t fit in that box and it really sucks to be in that situation for the child and, you know, for the family as well.

But, and it just, just does make it harder and it, I think it’s important to validate how tricky that is, how much energy and time and emotion goes into that, especially when you are bashing your head against a brick wall. But even just navigating things with, you know, educators who are on board, it can still be tricky cuz our kids are really complicated little [00:16:00] people.

But a basic expectation is what is your gifted program? In what ways do you currently accelerate students? I’d be like, gimme examples of what you’re doing now, because there will be, you know, there’s gifted kids everywhere. And, you know, and who do you have that’s qualified and getting a real sense that the leadership is on board because what so often you’ll get a good teacher and you, but you might only get that teacher for a year.

And, and that teacher can only do as much as they’re allowed to do from the leadership. So it’s really important that leadership is on board and knowledgeable about giftedness. Otherwise, it almost doesn’t matter how great the teacher is, if they’re trying to accelerate or whatever, they’re gonna hit a brick wall as well.

And some schools do composite classes and things like that. And I just think any opportunity where a gifted child has that chance to work at a higher level where they’re [00:17:00] needing to be met are things to consider. Because sometimes we’ve kind of gotta work with what we’ve got. But ultimately we want, I think everyone wants a learning environment where our kids are excited about learning where they thrive, where they can be themselves, ask questions. Lots of gifted kids just get told not to ask so many questions. Put your hand down. Yeah. Do you know,

I think that’s kinda hit the nail on the head, I guess with one of my big fears.

Emily : And we,

we were leaving the parent information night at the end of the year, and my partner was like,

Emily : you know,

you seem, you seem worried, like, what’s, what’s, what are you worried about? And I had this realization that my like biggest fear. of My son starting school is that he’s gonna lose his love for learning.

Emily : And I thought that was just so, scary that, you know, like I think that you, you send your child to school to [00:18:00] learn and then to have this perspective of I’ve already got a child that loves to learn, but I’m s I’m worried that you guys are gonna destroy that. And yeah, I think that was just really, I dunno, concerning to have that realization that that was, that was sort of my thought process.

And it is, it is. Things like you know, he does like to speak out, like he does like to ask questions and he’s, he’s such like, he, he loves to, like, loves to be a good kid, like loves to help, loves to, you know, be involved. But sometimes he does things that , might feel like he gets in trouble for, like, he’s not necessarily done the right thing.

So if he is, you know, if he does speak out, if a book’s being read or something like that. And if he gets told off for that, that’s like a massive trigger. And he just, you know, will get really sad depending on what the environment is. He might, it might turn into a meltdown. It might, he might be the naughty kid, so he feels like he’s been in trouble, so then he becomes naughty and then he continues to get in trouble.

So those are the sort of situations that I’m worried about. It’s like if he, if he does [00:19:00] interrupt during, you know, during a story or something like that and we’ll work with him obviously to make sure that he you know, understands I guess the. The way of a classroom and things like that as much as we can.

But if he does interrupt, don’t, don’t tell him off. Just say to him, you know, let’s talk about it after. He would happily accept that, you know? Mm-hmm. , don’t say shush. Just say, let’s chat about it after. Let’s catch up at recess. Mm-hmm. , or, you know, that sounds great. Let’s talk later. And that would just, you know, you, you can, you’d see the difference in his response just by the way that you are framing that and it’s, he’s still not getting his way.

He’s still not talking over the top of you or interrupting the class, but it’s just framing in a way that isn’t you know, isn’t discouraging or, or telling him off, you know, when he’s not trying to be naughty. So yeah, I just want him to come outta the school year, still loving to learn and having learned something

Cause I think ultimately that’s what he wants to do as. .

Sophia Elliott: And I think that’s a really hard thing because they, they’re like, woo, off to school, are you gonna learn? You’re gonna be awesome . And then you’re just like, oh, please be [00:20:00] awesome . And your gifted kids are so sensitive and, and generally have a really great awareness.

And so those things really do affect them. And they wanna be good kids. Do you know, it’s like cuz they’re so excited about learning. Unfortunately research shows us that gifted kids can spend as much as 80% of a school year without learning, which is pretty tragic. Yeah, that’s a downer. Moving on

Okay. What I will say as encouragement is,

You know, the very reason we’re having this conversation is of that it’s really hard as a parent to navigate your way through these for our kids, because it is, it’s really tricky. And even when, and even when that spark does get doused with a bucket of water, it’s always there. It’s who they are. And as parents, if we, you know, it’s up to us [00:21:00] to notice when that flame is under threat because it, it’s, it’s always gonna be there.

And if we can take action and find a place that will light up again, it will light up again. Do you know, it is kind of like, the truth is the, the threat is real. , but it can always be re lit, you know? And it’s like, yeah. I just think it’s, it’s about, I think having that confidence as a parent to trust your gut and keep an eye on things and you know, not, you know, like drive yourself crazy, stressful kind of way.

but just, yeah. And make those decisions when we can. And you know, and I, when I was thinking about it, I was sort of like, what are the, what are the things that I’ve learned that I would tell parents if I, or I wanted to know? Do you know? And I think [00:22:00] it’s very much trust your gut, your own intuition as a parent in, especially in how you feel your child is going.

And be having those conversations be that parent about how they’re going at school. and, and also have confidence that even the research shows us that parents are actually better at identifying giftedness in their kids than teachers. You know, we, we get it as parents, we’re like, something that’s not right here, , and this sticks all the boxes.

You know, like, and also gather, gather that community of support around you, the professionals that are going to help, who get gifted and who are going to help build you as a parent and your child up. So it might be the psychologist, the OTs, the whoever it is you need. And there are also even really great online forums like Sam Young and he is Young Scholars Academy, or Dr.

Dan do his biochemistry for [00:23:00] kids. Stuff like that where our gifted kids can actually get that cognitive need met in other ways, but also, See themselves in other kids. So that sense of I’m not alone because it’s incredibly important to get that sense of seeing my, you know, themselves in others. So even on that note, you know, getting in touch with your state association or even sometimes Mensa will have will do social things for kids.

Sometimes they don’t associations. They, everything can be hit and miss if it’s run by volunteers because, you know, volunteers do so much. But reaching out to whatever organizations are needed by to try and get those social opportunities for your kids to meet other gifted kids. Really important.

Yeah. And can really get them through and be prepared to know, be, have the confidence to know that you may know more about giftedness than the school or teacher that you’re talking to. Which [00:24:00] is a scary thought because you really want them to know it all. But unfortunately, as I said, they’re just not trained.

It’s not the teacher’s fault though, you know, the system really hasn’t done the right thing by gifted kids in that respect yet, you know, there really needs to be a part of every, every undergrad, in my opinion. So be prepared to make that call. Potentially move schools. Keeping an eye on those first years for changes in behavior.

We’ve talked a lot about the red flags. You know, ideally before it spirals into like mental health issues or burnout. And I’ll put a link to, there’s a great Davidson article on gifted kid burnout which basically is the more energy a kid has to put into getting through the day in an educational environment that is not a good match.

The more you know that, that takes that energy away from them and then they can eventually burn out because what they’re needing is a good educational fit.

Emily : And I think I was gonna [00:25:00] say as well, just in terms of that sort of sense of belonging that’s always just sort of been ingrained in me to make sure that sort of everyone everyone feels like they belong somewhere.

Mm-hmm. , I don’t think you’re, you’re gonna belong everywhere, but you need to have somewhere that you do feel like you belong. Yeah. And so we, as part of sort of our research throughout throughout the year well in the months really hasn’t even been year we did find a gifted program that supplements school.

So, we started him in that at the end of 2022 for term four. And that has been, amazing for him to be around other gifted children. Mm-hmm. But also for me because when I’m doing the drop-offs and pickups, I’m around other parents of gifted children mm-hmm. , so we can all just talk freely and just, you know, just talk about what it’s like and talk about what we’re experiencing.

And then he’s, he’s been accepted into that program again for 2023. So, at least I guess that will break up the school week for him. So sort of one [00:26:00] day a week, he won’t be at school, he’ll be at this other program. It’s not counted as an absence, it’s like an educational program. So, and it’s, you know, logistically it’s a bit of a nightmare.

But yeah, I just feel like that if, if we do end up in a path where the school isn’t meeting his needs, I’m hoping that at least one day a week you know, and like you say, he’s gifted all the time, it’s not just some of the time mm-hmm. , but I just hope that that one day a week does give him a sense of feeling normal and feeling Challenged and around other kids who he can engage with on his level. Yeah. So, you know, it’s, there are options out there. I guess it’s not, there’s not a lot. And they’re hard to find. But you know, we, we found one . Yeah.

Sophia Elliott: And so that was born to solar. Born to solar, yeah. Yeah. And in Melbourne.

Emily : Yep.

So they’re in Melbourne and I think in New South Wales as well. Yeah. I

Sophia Elliott: think they’re in Sydney as well. Yeah. I’ve come across them, so it’s really nice to hear that that’s been a great experience for you. Other parents might like to check that out as well, because there’s not a lot, but they are out [00:27:00] there and it’s about finding out what you’ve got locally, what your options are, and that’s a really great solution because guaranteed once a week he’s getting his cup full, you know, and, and that can make a really big difference.

He’s seeing other kids that are like him. He’s being met on the level. And that’s just what our kids need. In, in whatever way we can kind of pull that together as much as we can. And, and it’s nice to have parents in your life that get that, you know, you’re not being a pushy parent, putting ’em in this random program because you’re trying to hothouse them or something.

It’s like, no, no, no. They, they, they’re running off and we are just trying to keep up as parents, you know, we’re just trying to support them and what they need. And it’s nice to just be around other parents who get that, you know, that it’s actually, you’re just trying to support them, but they’re, they’re leading the charge on, on how much they wanna learn and how engaged they are with just [00:28:00] consuming knowledge.

Emily : And I think one thing that sort of, we’ve, we’ve, like a few of the parents and I have talked about is that I guess this perception that I guess parents of gifted children want, you know, that they’re pushing their children to become geniuses or something like that. Yeah. And we, you know, we’ve kind of all agreed that we, we don’t want, you know, that’s not necessarily what we want for our children.

We, we want them to be happy. And that’s, you know, that that’s, that’s ultimately what we’re, what we’re sort of doing all of this for. That’s what we’re doing all the research for and sending, you know, driving around to these programs and mm-hmm. , all that sort of thing. And I think that before, before we started our gifted journey with him you know, we just, we didn’t have any of those concerns.

We thought that, you know, you just send him to school and he would just grow up to be a happy, happy kid. And now it’s kind of, it’s changed a little bit and just, yeah. sort of really finding what, what does make him happy and making sure that you know, that the school environment does keep him. Yeah, just k [00:29:00] just keep him happy.

I don’t care if he’s, you know, if he’s a genius at the end of it. Mm-hmm. , just, just happy, that’s all. Yeah.

Sophia Elliott: Yeah. Absolutely. Like, personally for my own kids, I don’t care what they do in life, I just, I want them to be confident. I want them to get through the other side of school without being traumatized by it.

I, you know, I want them to be doing something they love because they’ve been on this journey with people around them who also love it and, you know, and I think, When you get into that gifted community where, where we all kind of get the challenges that come with this learning it, it’s very sobering. And you get that perspective of actually, this is just really about, it’s all, it’s all about the social and emotional because they’ve got the [00:30:00] brain to kind of do whatever they wanna put their mind to.

So, it, it really does become all about that social emotional piece. Yeah. I always think that you really know that you’re with like-minded parents when, when they’ve, they’ve, when that’s the value set, because I think it demonstrates that parent sense of, you know, given the, the struggles and challenges that go with this, actually all I really want is a happy kid.

, because it, it, what people don’t realize is, , there are the pros and cons of being gifted. It’s not all, you know, it’s, it’s actually quite a challenging journey. And at the end of the day, it’s really just about, yeah, seeing them onto this path, to adulthood, doing something that they love.

Hopefully, whatever that might end up being. So I dunno, we’ve, we’ve, we’ve, we’ve talked a lot. I feel like I’ve talked a lot. Hopefully , I haven’t bored you and answered some questions. And just kind of [00:31:00] things to, I don’t know, think about and look out for because it is incredibly important. And that was one of the other questions.

And why is it so important? Like, and I think that just harks back to the fact that they’re gifted from day dot. They need these accommodations through their whole educational journey. You know, they, their sense of self, who they are in the world, seeing other people like them it’s a, it’s a really important it just, yeah, it, it do, you know, it’s kinda like finding that it, it can change your trajectory of a kid’s life is actually what I’ve seen.

Finding that right. Educational fit for a gifted kid which is so challenging, but it can be as big as changing that trajectory and it’s incredibly important. And we have these conversations. I, I think to validate how challenging it is for parents who listen, but also hopefully it’s that [00:32:00] educators and policy makers can start to get a sense of what’s at stake and and.

What the challenges are and that we’re dealing with real people and real kids and real families. And, you know, we shouldn’t have to talk about moving house to access a school the only, or, you know, one of the few options that we might have to meet the educational needs of our kids. And things like that.

It’s a lot. So, I dunno, I hope that this conversation has helped anyone at that part of the journey. I often get to the end of the podcast, I’m like, oh, what did I just say? I don’t know. Something useful.

Emily : I think, I dunno, I’ve found it really overwhelming at the beginning, but I think, you know, generally, you know, if a task is overwhelming, you break it down into smaller chunks.

And for me, just focusing on prep, so rather than being like, yes, what’s my son’s schooling journey gonna be like for the next 12 years? Mm-hmm. This is such a big decision, you know, is he going [00:33:00] to, you know, he’s gonna be in puberty and he’s gonna be one of the youngest. All these sort of things. It’s like, yeah, prep.

Let’s deal with prep. Yeah. And I don’t know what’s gonna happen, but we’re just dealing with prep and we’ll see what happens. Yeah. So,

Sophia Elliott: yeah. Do you know, and I think that’s a brilliant approach and, and I think I’ve probably taken a similar one myself. It’s like, what’s just the next right step? You know? And, and also I think when you, your kids find their peers, like their gifted peers, whatever that journey is, kind of becomes the norm.

You know, so those things that people can get very wound up about, oh, you know, if we accelerate now, they’ll be younger then and da da. And it’s kind of like, well, if they know enough, are they gifted kids? That’s gonna be a norm, you know, whether they’re at school or they know through programs or whatever.

So it’s, it’s about shifting our perspective, I think, around norms as well. And it’s kind of like, and it’ll be okay. [00:34:00] Like it will be okay. It’s tricky, but we can get through this. We’re not alone. There’s actually lots of families going through this process. And, and, and the more that we support each other and talk about these issues and help each other find the helpers out there and the support, you know, networks like Born to Soar and.

Our gifted and talented associations and, and places like that then, you know, we can kind of get through this journey together. So thank you so much for reaching out with these questions, coming on the podcast, even though it can be a bit scary. And thank you for staying up late with me. I’ve just realized the time and and having this chat with me, I really appreciated it.

Emily : Thank you. Thank you for your time,​[00:35:00]